Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind about the GUI changes:
1.. It's more difficult to use. Most of the common things I do in Windows take 2-3 times more mouse clicks in Vista than any previous version of Windows.
2.. Security is too tight. You can't even run a control panel applet, as Administrator, without a security warning to allow the action.
3.. Windows Explorer is a mess. It crashes multiple times in simple sessions. Just getting a file listing of a directory is a major undertaking.
4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more difficult.
It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha level products.
Ed
Vista GUI
Ed, you did not say what version of Vista you are running. Vista has made great strides since the first releases and will make many more before it is a full featured and robust OS. It will be one of the most secured OS out on the market. It is in many stages of testing, and if you think about it, a few extra clicks of the mouse to insure security on your system isn't so bad, compared to the alternative of someone hacking into your system and causing all sorts of havoc. The issues you have brought up will be addressed and streamlined and fixed as needed, so stay tuned and don't get to frustrated, it will get better.
Regards
"Ed Dixon" wrote in message
Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind about the GUI changes:
1.. It's more difficult to use. Most of the common things I do in Windows take 2-3 times more mouse clicks in Vista than any previous version of Windows.
2.. Security is too tight. You can't even run a control panel applet, as Administrator, without a security warning to allow the action.
3.. Windows Explorer is a mess. It crashes multiple times in simple sessions. Just getting a file listing of a directory is a major undertaking.
4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more difficult.
It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha level products.
Ed
My personal answers in line: "Ed Dixon" wrote in message
Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind about the GUI changes:
1.. It's more difficult to use. Most of the common things I do in Windows take 2-3 times more mouse clicks in Vista than any previous version of Windows. * Could you specify for example? I have 3 columns of applications in the all
programs group on XP, it takes 1 to 2 mins to find something, Vista, just type in the name of the app and it pops up on the new start menu. Filtered search integrated into every explorer makes it really easy to find files.
2.. Security is too tight. You can't even run a control panel applet, as Administrator, without a security warning to allow the action. *This is still a work in progress and you should see changes to it as the
beta progresses, you can currently disable UAP (User account protect) Win key + R > type in MSCONFIG > Tools (tab) > scroll down > select Disable UAP
launch > restart system and it will not bother you again. Do this only for convenience though in the beta, as it is not the expected behaviour in the
final release. Ironic how some of us consider XP to be too insecure, but we are calling Vista too secure. LOL!
3.. Windows Explorer is a mess. It crashes multiple times in simple sessions. Just getting a file listing of a directory is a major undertaking. * List view is coming back and there should be some additional changes by RC
1 :)
4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more difficult. * I am sure the folks who work on Tweak UI and other Windows Power Toys as a
part time project will be releasing updates for Vista as soon as it RTMs or some time after.
* It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha level products.
*I agree, but it is still beta 1 regardless you see that build tag saying BETA 2, optimization of performance will increase and the installation time will be reduced by BETA 2 going forward.
* You can send in your sentiments here:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=55160
Ed
Running 5308.
My current reaction to Vista is one giant step backwards. Maybe it will improve with other releases, but currently it's something I would recommend to customers to avoid at all cost.
Ed
"Tim S." wrote in message
Ed, you did not say what version of Vista you are running. Vista has made great strides since the first releases and will make many more before it is a full featured and robust OS. It will be one of the most secured OS out on the market. It is in many stages of testing, and if you think about it, a few extra clicks of the mouse to insure security on your system isn't so bad, compared to the alternative of someone hacking into your system and causing all sorts of havoc. The issues you have brought up will be addressed and streamlined and fixed as needed, so stay tuned and don't get to frustrated, it will get better.
Regards
"Ed Dixon" wrote in message Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind about the GUI changes:
1.. It's more difficult to use. Most of the common things I do in Windows take 2-3 times more mouse clicks in Vista than any previous version of Windows.
2.. Security is too tight. You can't even run a control panel applet, as Administrator, without a security warning to allow the action.
3.. Windows Explorer is a mess. It crashes multiple times in simple sessions. Just getting a file listing of a directory is a major undertaking.
4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more difficult.
It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha level products.
Ed
In reply.
1. Mouse clicks. Display properties is one example. You want to change the resolution or some other display setting. Before right mouse clock, select tab, and make changes. Vista involves more steps. Almost everything in control panel is this way.
2. Security. My thought would have been to disable UAP (or whatever else is needed) and default to past approach. Then provide an info popup with summary info about new options in this area that offer increased security/restrictions.
I used to work with the Air Force on software efforts. An Air Force General there had a very good comment about computer security. His words were "The greatest threat to security is denial of service". What he meant was that security changes that made the system harder for the rank and file to use posed a greater threat in preventing them from doing their jobs than the efforts of actual bad folks.
3. Windows Explorer. I find it amazing that they released anything with it's current state. it's just too central to Windows to have the problems it has.
4. TweakUI. Figured this one was coming. However I would have expected more at this point.
I remember seeing Win95 in the early Beta days. It was much closer to something useable than what I see here. Same for Win98, Win2000, XP, 2003, etc. This one is just way off, which might have something to do with the news items about Vista being postponed until 2007.
Ed
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message
My personal answers in line: "Ed Dixon" wrote in message Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind about the GUI changes:
1.. It's more difficult to use. Most of the common things I do in Windows take 2-3 times more mouse clicks in Vista than any previous version of Windows. * Could you specify for example? I have 3 columns of applications in the all programs group on XP, it takes 1 to 2 mins to find something, Vista, just type in the name of the app and it pops up on the new start menu. Filtered search integrated into every explorer makes it really easy to find files.
2.. Security is too tight. You can't even run a control panel applet, as Administrator, without a security warning to allow the action. *This is still a work in progress and you should see changes to it as the beta progresses, you can currently disable UAP (User account protect) Win key + R > type in MSCONFIG > Tools (tab) > scroll down > select Disable UAP launch > restart system and it will not bother you again. Do this only for convenience though in the beta, as it is not the expected behaviour in the final release. Ironic how some of us consider XP to be too insecure, but we are calling Vista too secure. LOL!
3.. Windows Explorer is a mess. It crashes multiple times in simple sessions. Just getting a file listing of a directory is a major undertaking. * List view is coming back and there should be some additional changes by RC 1 :)
4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more difficult. * I am sure the folks who work on Tweak UI and other Windows Power Toys as a part time project will be releasing updates for Vista as soon as it RTMs or some time after.
* It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha level products.
*I agree, but it is still beta 1 regardless you see that build tag saying BETA 2, optimization of performance will increase and the installation time will be reduced by BETA 2 going forward.
* You can send in your sentiments here: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=55160 Ed
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 15:48:54 -0400, Ed Dixon wrote:
4. TweakUI. Figured this one was coming. However I would have expected more at this point.
The PowerToys are things that Microsoft programmers do on their own time. They were never officially supported by Microsoft so you shouldn't expect to have them as part of the base OS.
--
-Jeff B. zoomie at fastmail dot fm
Running 5308.
My current reaction to Vista is one giant step backwards. Maybe it will improve with other releases, but currently it's something I would recommend to customers to avoid at all cost.
You ain't alone on that one! Frank
Ironic how some of us consider XP to be too insecure, but we
I want it to be secure from outsiders, not from the person sitting at the keyboard!
Tom Lake
I had the same impression at first. But after a few weeks of using Vista navigation, I'm wondering how I ever got along without it. I hate going back to XP now because I can get to everything and anything much more quickly and easily in Vista. The old way of doing things, where everything is based on "location", is ancient history from here on out. And I say "good riddance", now that I understand how to get around in Vista.
You'll feel the same way in a few weeks. (This coming from a guy who, like most people here, have been doing this stuff since DOS days).
"Ed Dixon" wrote in message
Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind about the GUI changes:
1.. It's more difficult to use. Most of the common things I do in Windows take 2-3 times more mouse clicks in Vista than any previous version of Windows.
2.. Security is too tight. You can't even run a control panel applet, as Administrator, without a security warning to allow the action.
3.. Windows Explorer is a mess. It crashes multiple times in simple sessions. Just getting a file listing of a directory is a major undertaking.
4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more difficult.
It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha level products.
Ed
Frank noted:
Ed Dixon wrote: Running 5308.
My current reaction to Vista is one giant step backwards. Maybe it will improve with other releases, but currently it's something I would recommend to customers to avoid at all cost.
You ain't alone on that one!
Not at all... at least, Paul is with him:
<http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp>
Roy
Too often the outsiders ARE the ones sitting at the keyboard.
Regards
"Tom Lake" wrote in message
Ironic how some of us consider XP to be too insecure, but we are calling Vista too secure. LOL!
I want it to be secure from outsiders, not from the person sitting at the keyboard!
Tom Lake
Keeping Vista running here at all has been hard. My primary test machine no longer boots vista correctly and the last two attempts to reinstall failed for unspecified reasons.
New concepts for navigation are not a new thing. However closing down the old ones is usually a bad idea and simply becomes a reason not to upgrade.
I do lots of Windows support work as well as development. I divide users into three groups. Group 1 are novices who may not have noticed that a mouse has more than one button. Group 2 are seasoned Windows users and can get around and do most things easily. Group 3 are experts.
The world is full of group 1. Group 2 is increasing in size, but slowly and group 3 is tiny (percentage wise). Vista will be rejected by group 1 in anything like it's current form. Group 3 may like or hate it, but can deal with it either way. Group 2 opinions will vary based on their jobs.
Ed
"Puppy Breath" wrote in message
I had the same impression at first. But after a few weeks of using Vista navigation, I'm wondering how I ever got along without it. I hate going back to XP now because I can get to everything and anything much more quickly and easily in Vista. The old way of doing things, where everything is based on "location", is ancient history from here on out. And I say "good riddance", now that I understand how to get around in Vista.
You'll feel the same way in a few weeks. (This coming from a guy who, like most people here, have been doing this stuff since DOS days).
"Ed Dixon" wrote in message Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind about the GUI changes:
1.. It's more difficult to use. Most of the common things I do in Windows take 2-3 times more mouse clicks in Vista than any previous version of Windows.
2.. Security is too tight. You can't even run a control panel applet, as Administrator, without a security warning to allow the action.
3.. Windows Explorer is a mess. It crashes multiple times in simple sessions. Just getting a file listing of a directory is a major undertaking.
4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more difficult.
It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha level products.
Ed
So the outsider has got to the PC and logged in. These mouse click inefficiencies will not deter the outside from doing what they, only taking a few more mouse clicks.
Once someone is in, they're in. These new things offer no security at that point, only more work. One cannot solve physical security with inefficient design.
Ed
"Tim S." wrote in message
Too often the outsiders ARE the ones sitting at the keyboard.
Regards
"Tom Lake" wrote in message Ironic how some of us consider XP to be too insecure, but we are calling Vista too secure. LOL!
I want it to be secure from outsiders, not from the person sitting at the keyboard!
Tom Lake
Puppy Breath wrote:
I had the same impression at first. But after a few weeks of using Vista navigation, I'm wondering how I ever got along without it. I hate going back to XP now because I can get to everything and anything much more quickly and easily in Vista. The old way of doing things, where everything is based on "location", is ancient history from here on out. And I say "good riddance", now that I understand how to get around in Vista.
You'll feel the same way in a few weeks. (This coming from a guy who, like most people here, have been doing this stuff since DOS days).
In a few weeks? I don't think so! I've been banging away with these
builds for what...over a year now and I still don't get what it is the heads of development are trying to do. If you remember, going from Dos to 3 to 95 (A,B,C) to 98 to 98SE to ME to 2K to XP/MCE everything go easier and simpler with each new release. I don't see the human logic in how you navigate in Vista. It's not there. If I'm going to volume license Vista for my company, it can't be like it is now. I won't take it. There is absolutely nothing compelling, right now, in Vista, that warrants shelling out thousands of $'s for it in my view. And seeing as how I own a marketing company, I kinda have an professional idea of how the buying public tends to spend their hard earned dollars. After all, it's my job. I'm hoping things will change. Maybe BG will light a fire under the team or SB will throw some chairs around, pound on the desk and maybe kick some ass. I hope! Frank
its stinks big time..
"Ed Dixon" wrote in message
Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind about the GUI changes:
1.. It's more difficult to use. Most of the common things I do in Windows take 2-3 times more mouse clicks in Vista than any previous version of Windows.
2.. Security is too tight. You can't even run a control panel applet, as Administrator, without a security warning to allow the action.
3.. Windows Explorer is a mess. It crashes multiple times in simple sessions. Just getting a file listing of a directory is a major undertaking.
4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more difficult.
It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha level products.
Ed
you have to analyze? and get lost in the details?
No thanks!
Let me give it to you simple and clear: the "User Experience" stinks!
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message
My personal answers in line: "Ed Dixon" wrote in message Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind about the GUI changes:
1.. It's more difficult to use. Most of the common things I do in Windows take 2-3 times more mouse clicks in Vista than any previous version of Windows. * Could you specify for example? I have 3 columns of applications in the all programs group on XP, it takes 1 to 2 mins to find something, Vista, just type in the name of the app and it pops up on the new start menu. Filtered search integrated into every explorer makes it really easy to find files.
2.. Security is too tight. You can't even run a control panel applet, as Administrator, without a security warning to allow the action. *This is still a work in progress and you should see changes to it as the beta progresses, you can currently disable UAP (User account protect) Win key + R > type in MSCONFIG > Tools (tab) > scroll down > select Disable UAP launch > restart system and it will not bother you again. Do this only for convenience though in the beta, as it is not the expected behaviour in the final release. Ironic how some of us consider XP to be too insecure, but we are calling Vista too secure. LOL!
3.. Windows Explorer is a mess. It crashes multiple times in simple sessions. Just getting a file listing of a directory is a major undertaking. * List view is coming back and there should be some additional changes by RC 1 :)
4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more difficult. * I am sure the folks who work on Tweak UI and other Windows Power Toys as a part time project will be releasing updates for Vista as soon as it RTMs or some time after.
* It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha level products.
*I agree, but it is still beta 1 regardless you see that build tag saying BETA 2, optimization of performance will increase and the installation time will be reduced by BETA 2 going forward.
* You can send in your sentiments here: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=55160 Ed
I think it rocks! Some of the dialogs are simplified so much more now - I've literally just encountered a "Desktop Composition" message with 3 options - all laid out easily and simply, specific but easy to understand :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
you have to analyze? and get lost in the details?
No thanks!
Let me give it to you simple and clear: the "User Experience" stinks!
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message My personal answers in line: "Ed Dixon" wrote in message Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind about the GUI changes:
1.. It's more difficult to use. Most of the common things I do in Windows take 2-3 times more mouse clicks in Vista than any previous version of Windows. * Could you specify for example? I have 3 columns of applications in the all programs group on XP, it takes 1 to 2 mins to find something, Vista, just type in the name of the app and it pops up on the new start menu. Filtered search integrated into every explorer makes it really easy to find files.
2.. Security is too tight. You can't even run a control panel applet, as Administrator, without a security warning to allow the action. *This is still a work in progress and you should see changes to it as the beta progresses, you can currently disable UAP (User account protect) Win key + R > type in MSCONFIG > Tools (tab) > scroll down > select Disable UAP launch > restart system and it will not bother you again. Do this only for convenience though in the beta, as it is not the expected behaviour in the final release. Ironic how some of us consider XP to be too insecure, but we are calling Vista too secure. LOL!
3.. Windows Explorer is a mess. It crashes multiple times in simple sessions. Just getting a file listing of a directory is a major undertaking. * List view is coming back and there should be some additional changes by RC 1 :)
4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more difficult. * I am sure the folks who work on Tweak UI and other Windows Power Toys as a part time project will be releasing updates for Vista as soon as it RTMs or some time after.
* It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha level products.
*I agree, but it is still beta 1 regardless you see that build tag saying BETA 2, optimization of performance will increase and the installation time will be reduced by BETA 2 going forward.
* You can send in your sentiments here: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=55160 Ed
The changes made to explorer are tremedous in their advantages, you don't have to be opening dialogs, its right there in front of you, features like Preview Pane, Explorer Favorite links (improved in 5365), bread crumb menus which makes it easier to navigate through folders. The built in search which makes it way easier to find a file. In XP it could have taken forever to find a file using the old search technology. Now with the new fast search technology, its a few seconds.
More secure, UAP (still a work in progress) is really a needed feature in Windows, people need to be protected from themselves, especially with the continuous barrage of malicious data on the net, UAP prevents you from installing mistakes on your computer that is commonly happening on XP and prior versions of Windows. Internet Explorer Protected Mode makes your web browsing experience safer, AntiPhishing sites can't easily fool you, you can't easily get infected with Malware because AntiMalware protection is built right in, plus its part of the OS with Windows Defender. Internet Explorer is easier to use, features such as TABs, Tab Gallery, subscribing to your favorite websites are built right in.
Built in collaboration makes it easier to connect up to other people in a ad-hoc way, you are able to share data easily and more securely. Connecting to devices is easier, plug it in and it works, (still a work in progress, but its getting) there. Things importing and managing your photographs, finding things to do with them, whether its tagging for easier finding, making a DVD, viewing a slide. Features like burning a DVD, backing up data, its easy and its built, its still rough around edges, but its getting there, XP was rough around the edges during this stage of development. But just knowing its in there, giving you a better more complete out of the box experience is what really makes Vista really compelling for me personally.
Things like managing your music is way cool in Vista, the new Album preview feature with the built in search capabilities makes listening to your music a great experience. Managing e-mail is easier, searching through tonnes of e-mail again is easier because of the new built in search capabilities, finding helpful answers in newsgroups is easier because of built in community feature. AntiPhishing is built in which makes it a safer experience, new spam filter filter makes cleaning your inbox a rear occasion, migrating your mail box is easier because of the new Mail store.
Vista will be easier to deploy, this is still a work in progress, but trust me, its getting there, and I am sure by RTM we will be surprised and say we were wrong. The new end to end experiences that are being built will surely make us think so, deploying in multilingual environments or sites will be easier for companies, BitLocker, Virtual PC Express, Unix Subsystem, (Tablet PC, 64-Bit, Media Center) bringing it mainstream and opening peoples eyes to the possibilities of these awesome features. Features like Sidebar, which is about presenting bits of real time information to people when they need it.
I have not even tapped into the Developer opportunities, to build richer, more compelling, connected, easier applications with tools such as Windows Presentation and Communication Foundation. There is so much in Vista, and last but not least, the clean user interface that is presented through Windows Aero. I think Glass is sexy stuff, it still needs work especially things like the ability to differenciate Inactive and Active windows, but I am sure those are being worked on. There is so much I could post but I am tired. But I just want to say look at the opportunities, and stop looking at the temporary issues that will be fixed as development progresses towards RTM. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Frank" wrote in message
Puppy Breath wrote: I had the same impression at first. But after a few weeks of using Vista navigation, I'm wondering how I ever got along without it. I hate going back to XP now because I can get to everything and anything much more quickly and easily in Vista. The old way of doing things, where everything is based on "location", is ancient history from here on out. And I say "good riddance", now that I understand how to get around in Vista.
You'll feel the same way in a few weeks. (This coming from a guy who, like most people here, have been doing this stuff since DOS days).
In a few weeks? I don't think so! I've been banging away with these builds for what...over a year now and I still don't get what it is the heads of development are trying to do. If you remember, going from Dos to 3 to 95 (A,B,C) to 98 to 98SE to ME to 2K to XP/MCE everything go easier and simpler with each new release. I don't see the human logic in how you navigate in Vista. It's not there. If I'm going to volume license Vista for my company, it can't be like it is now. I won't take it. There is absolutely nothing compelling, right now, in Vista, that warrants shelling out thousands of $'s for it in my view. And seeing as how I own a marketing company, I kinda have an professional idea of how the buying public tends to spend their hard earned dollars. After all, it's my job. I'm hoping things will change. Maybe BG will light a fire under the team or SB will throw some chairs around, pound on the desk and maybe kick some ass. I hope! Frank
Do a Google search for TweakVista ;)) -- Pierre Szwarc Paris, France PGP key ID 0x75B5779B ------------------------------------------------ Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom ! ------------------------------------------------
"Ed Dixon" a écrit dans le message de news: eEYwiQjZGHA.3524@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... | Having played with Vista only a short time, a couple things come to mind | about the GUI changes: [snip] | 4.. The lack of TweakUI tools makes life for experienced users much more | difficult. | | | It's a dog to install or run. My overall impression is that this is not a | Beta level product, but something more like what one sees with early Alpha | level products.
John Jay Smith wrote:
its stinks big time..
And if it ever gets better it will be because of people like Ed enumerating their concerns, and not because of folks typing "it stinks" every time they see an opportunity.
-- -- Rob Moir, Microsoft MVP Blog Site - http://www.robertmoir.com Virtual PC 2004 FAQ - http://www.robertmoir.co.uk/win/VirtualPC2004FAQ.html I'm always surprised at "professionals" who STILL have to be asked "Have you checked (event viewer / syslog)".
I'm sure there are some good features in Vista. However your words sound a little too like the argument on why New Coke, the IBM PC Jr, Microsoft Bob, the Edisel, and OS/2 are such fantastic products...
The basics of Vista is what will hold it back. Fix the basics, and things will be better.
When XP came out, it has a different look and feel based on the XP theme. Fortunately a mouse click or two easily puts it back to the familiar Classic look that many prefer. Beauty is in the eyes of beholder. The trick is to be sure the views of beauty are not removed.
Explorer is a complete mess. Admit it and fix it. Stop trying to sell a dead horse there. Same for UAP. It absoultely needs to default to something different.
I remember a similar argument on Control Panel settings for power saver options in the early Win2000 or XP beta days (I don't remember which). At that time it always reverted to turning on power options that powered down hard drives, regardless of previous user settings before the upgrade action. MS folks made impressive arguments on why this was correct, which it was not. When the dust settled, cooler heads prevailed and power settings were not defaulted to the new values.
XP has some impressive features, but it's amazing how many rank and file users are completely unaware of them. I suspect the same for Vista.
In it's current form, the only reason a rank and file user will get it is if it comes with a new PC. And if it doesnt change, that will generate lots of business for consultants like us who will be called to put XP back so they can work the ways they did before.
Ed
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message
The changes made to explorer are tremedous in their advantages, you don't have to be opening dialogs, its right there in front of you, features like Preview Pane, Explorer Favorite links (improved in 5365), bread crumb menus which makes it easier to navigate through folders. The built in search which makes it way easier to find a file. In XP it could have taken forever to find a file using the old search technology. Now with the new fast search technology, its a few seconds.
More secure, UAP (still a work in progress) is really a needed feature in Windows, people need to be protected from themselves, especially with the continuous barrage of malicious data on the net, UAP prevents you from installing mistakes on your computer that is commonly happening on XP and prior versions of Windows. Internet Explorer Protected Mode makes your web browsing experience safer, AntiPhishing sites can't easily fool you, you can't easily get infected with Malware because AntiMalware protection is built right in, plus its part of the OS with Windows Defender. Internet Explorer is easier to use, features such as TABs, Tab Gallery, subscribing to your favorite websites are built right in.
Built in collaboration makes it easier to connect up to other people in a ad-hoc way, you are able to share data easily and more securely. Connecting to devices is easier, plug it in and it works, (still a work in progress, but its getting) there. Things importing and managing your photographs, finding things to do with them, whether its tagging for easier finding, making a DVD, viewing a slide. Features like burning a DVD, backing up data, its easy and its built, its still rough around edges, but its getting there, XP was rough around the edges during this stage of development. But just knowing its in there, giving you a better more complete out of the box experience is what really makes Vista really compelling for me personally.
Things like managing your music is way cool in Vista, the new Album preview feature with the built in search capabilities makes listening to your music a great experience. Managing e-mail is easier, searching through tonnes of e-mail again is easier because of the new built in search capabilities, finding helpful answers in newsgroups is easier because of built in community feature. AntiPhishing is built in which makes it a safer experience, new spam filter filter makes cleaning your inbox a rear occasion, migrating your mail box is easier because of the new Mail store.
Vista will be easier to deploy, this is still a work in progress, but trust me, its getting there, and I am sure by RTM we will be surprised and say we were wrong. The new end to end experiences that are being built will surely make us think so, deploying in multilingual environments or sites will be easier for companies, BitLocker, Virtual PC Express, Unix Subsystem, (Tablet PC, 64-Bit, Media Center) bringing it mainstream and opening peoples eyes to the possibilities of these awesome features. Features like Sidebar, which is about presenting bits of real time information to people when they need it.
I have not even tapped into the Developer opportunities, to build richer, more compelling, connected, easier applications with tools such as Windows Presentation and Communication Foundation. There is so much in Vista, and last but not least, the clean user interface that is presented through Windows Aero. I think Glass is sexy stuff, it still needs work especially things like the ability to differenciate Inactive and Active windows, but I am sure those are being worked on. There is so much I could post but I am tired. But I just want to say look at the opportunities, and stop looking at the temporary issues that will be fixed as development progresses towards RTM. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Frank" wrote in message Puppy Breath wrote: I had the same impression at first. But after a few weeks of using Vista navigation, I'm wondering how I ever got along without it. I hate going back to XP now because I can get to everything and anything much more quickly and easily in Vista. The old way of doing things, where everything is based on "location", is ancient history from here on out. And I say "good riddance", now that I understand how to get around in Vista.
You'll feel the same way in a few weeks. (This coming from a guy who, like most people here, have been doing this stuff since DOS days).
In a few weeks? I don't think so! I've been banging away with these builds for what...over a year now and I still don't get what it is the heads of development are trying to do. If you remember, going from Dos to 3 to 95 (A,B,C) to 98 to 98SE to ME to 2K to XP/MCE everything go easier and simpler with each new release. I don't see the human logic in how you navigate in Vista. It's not there. If I'm going to volume license Vista for my company, it can't be like it is now. I won't take it. There is absolutely nothing compelling, right now, in Vista, that warrants shelling out thousands of $'s for it in my view. And seeing as how I own a marketing company, I kinda have an professional idea of how the buying public tends to spend their hard earned dollars. After all, it's my job. I'm hoping things will change. Maybe BG will light a fire under the team or SB will throw some chairs around, pound on the desk and maybe kick some ass. I hope! Frank
Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote:
The changes made to explorer are tremedous in their advantages, you don't have to be opening dialogs, its right there in front of you, features like Preview Pane, Explorer Favorite links (improved in 5365), bread crumb menus which makes it easier to navigate through folders. The built in search which makes it way easier to find a file. In XP it could have taken forever to find a file using the old search technology. Now with the new fast search technology, its a few seconds.
More secure, UAP (still a work in progress) is really a needed feature in Windows, people need to be protected from themselves, especially with the continuous barrage of malicious data on the net, UAP prevents you from installing mistakes on your computer that is commonly happening on XP and prior versions of Windows. Internet Explorer Protected Mode makes your web browsing experience safer, AntiPhishing sites can't easily fool you, you can't easily get infected with Malware because AntiMalware protection is built right in, plus its part of the OS with Windows Defender. Internet Explorer is easier to use, features such as TABs, Tab Gallery, subscribing to your favorite websites are built right in.
Built in collaboration makes it easier to connect up to other people in a ad-hoc way, you are able to share data easily and more securely. Connecting to devices is easier, plug it in and it works, (still a work in progress, but its getting) there. Things importing and managing your photographs, finding things to do with them, whether its tagging for easier finding, making a DVD, viewing a slide. Features like burning a DVD, backing up data, its easy and its built, its still rough around edges, but its getting there, XP was rough around the edges during this stage of development. But just knowing its in there, giving you a better more complete out of the box experience is what really makes Vista really compelling for me personally.
Things like managing your music is way cool in Vista, the new Album preview feature with the built in search capabilities makes listening to your music a great experience. Managing e-mail is easier, searching through tonnes of e-mail again is easier because of the new built in search capabilities, finding helpful answers in newsgroups is easier because of built in community feature. AntiPhishing is built in which makes it a safer experience, new spam filter filter makes cleaning your inbox a rear occasion, migrating your mail box is easier because of the new Mail store.
Vista will be easier to deploy, this is still a work in progress, but trust me, its getting there, and I am sure by RTM we will be surprised and say we were wrong. The new end to end experiences that are being built will surely make us think so, deploying in multilingual environments or sites will be easier for companies, BitLocker, Virtual PC Express, Unix Subsystem, (Tablet PC, 64-Bit, Media Center) bringing it mainstream and opening peoples eyes to the possibilities of these awesome features. Features like Sidebar, which is about presenting bits of real time information to people when they need it.
I have not even tapped into the Developer opportunities, to build richer, more compelling, connected, easier applications with tools such as Windows Presentation and Communication Foundation. There is so much in Vista, and last but not least, the clean user interface that is presented through Windows Aero. I think Glass is sexy stuff, it still needs work especially things like the ability to differenciate Inactive and Active windows, but I am sure those are being worked on. There is so much I could post but I am tired. But I just want to say look at the opportunities, and stop looking at the temporary issues that will be fixed as development progresses towards RTM. Don't spout the corp line and expect that'll fix everything Andre cause
it won't. Only real changes will save Vista, not paying lip service to corp/department heads. I owe nothing to MS therefore I'm unencumbered in my opinion. Just fix the damn thing! Frank
Pierre Szwarc wrote:
Do a Google search for TweakVista ;))
Get this...I got tweakUI w/95 to install the .inf file and it works!. Hint, first thing I now do in Vista is turn off UAP! Frank
But it will be, we are not at BETA 2 yet, you will start to see tremendous changes then. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Frank" wrote in message
Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote: The changes made to explorer are tremedous in their advantages, you don't have to be opening dialogs, its right there in front of you, features like Preview Pane, Explorer Favorite links (improved in 5365), bread crumb menus which makes it easier to navigate through folders. The built in search which makes it way easier to find a file. In XP it could have taken forever to find a file using the old search technology. Now with the new fast search technology, its a few seconds.
More secure, UAP (still a work in progress) is really a needed feature in Windows, people need to be protected from themselves, especially with the continuous barrage of malicious data on the net, UAP prevents you from installing mistakes on your computer that is commonly happening on XP and prior versions of Windows. Internet Explorer Protected Mode makes your web browsing experience safer, AntiPhishing sites can't easily fool you, you can't easily get infected with Malware because AntiMalware protection is built right in, plus its part of the OS with Windows Defender. Internet Explorer is easier to use, features such as TABs, Tab Gallery, subscribing to your favorite websites are built right in.
Built in collaboration makes it easier to connect up to other people in a ad-hoc way, you are able to share data easily and more securely. Connecting to devices is easier, plug it in and it works, (still a work in progress, but its getting) there. Things importing and managing your photographs, finding things to do with them, whether its tagging for easier finding, making a DVD, viewing a slide. Features like burning a DVD, backing up data, its easy and its built, its still rough around edges, but its getting there, XP was rough around the edges during this stage of development. But just knowing its in there, giving you a better more complete out of the box experience is what really makes Vista really compelling for me personally.
Things like managing your music is way cool in Vista, the new Album preview feature with the built in search capabilities makes listening to your music a great experience. Managing e-mail is easier, searching through tonnes of e-mail again is easier because of the new built in search capabilities, finding helpful answers in newsgroups is easier because of built in community feature. AntiPhishing is built in which makes it a safer experience, new spam filter filter makes cleaning your inbox a rear occasion, migrating your mail box is easier because of the new Mail store.
Vista will be easier to deploy, this is still a work in progress, but trust me, its getting there, and I am sure by RTM we will be surprised and say we were wrong. The new end to end experiences that are being built will surely make us think so, deploying in multilingual environments or sites will be easier for companies, BitLocker, Virtual PC Express, Unix Subsystem, (Tablet PC, 64-Bit, Media Center) bringing it mainstream and opening peoples eyes to the possibilities of these awesome features. Features like Sidebar, which is about presenting bits of real time information to people when they need it.
I have not even tapped into the Developer opportunities, to build richer, more compelling, connected, easier applications with tools such as Windows Presentation and Communication Foundation. There is so much in Vista, and last but not least, the clean user interface that is presented through Windows Aero. I think Glass is sexy stuff, it still needs work especially things like the ability to differenciate Inactive and Active windows, but I am sure those are being worked on. There is so much I could post but I am tired. But I just want to say look at the opportunities, and stop looking at the temporary issues that will be fixed as development progresses towards RTM. Don't spout the corp line and expect that'll fix everything Andre cause it won't. Only real changes will save Vista, not paying lip service to corp/department heads. I owe nothing to MS therefore I'm unencumbered in my opinion. Just fix the damn thing! Frank
Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote:
But it will be, we are not at BETA 2 yet, you will start to see tremendous changes then. We all hope you're right.
Thanks. Frank
What we have now for Vista is not even a beta level product. It has way too many performance and operational issues, not even considering the DOA UI, to be considered anything other than an early Alpha product.
It's good they got it in front of many, but to call it Beta is just wishful thinking.
Ed
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message
But it will be, we are not at BETA 2 yet, you will start to see tremendous changes then. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Frank" wrote in message Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote: The changes made to explorer are tremedous in their advantages, you don't have to be opening dialogs, its right there in front of you, features like Preview Pane, Explorer Favorite links (improved in 5365), bread crumb menus which makes it easier to navigate through folders. The built in search which makes it way easier to find a file. In XP it could have taken forever to find a file using the old search technology. Now with the new fast search technology, its a few seconds.
More secure, UAP (still a work in progress) is really a needed feature in Windows, people need to be protected from themselves, especially with the continuous barrage of malicious data on the net, UAP prevents you from installing mistakes on your computer that is commonly happening on XP and prior versions of Windows. Internet Explorer Protected Mode makes your web browsing experience safer, AntiPhishing sites can't easily fool you, you can't easily get infected with Malware because AntiMalware protection is built right in, plus its part of the OS with Windows Defender. Internet Explorer is easier to use, features such as TABs, Tab Gallery, subscribing to your favorite websites are built right in.
Built in collaboration makes it easier to connect up to other people in a ad-hoc way, you are able to share data easily and more securely. Connecting to devices is easier, plug it in and it works, (still a work in progress, but its getting) there. Things importing and managing your photographs, finding things to do with them, whether its tagging for easier finding, making a DVD, viewing a slide. Features like burning a DVD, backing up data, its easy and its built, its still rough around edges, but its getting there, XP was rough around the edges during this stage of development. But just knowing its in there, giving you a better more complete out of the box experience is what really makes Vista really compelling for me personally.
Things like managing your music is way cool in Vista, the new Album preview feature with the built in search capabilities makes listening to your music a great experience. Managing e-mail is easier, searching through tonnes of e-mail again is easier because of the new built in search capabilities, finding helpful answers in newsgroups is easier because of built in community feature. AntiPhishing is built in which makes it a safer experience, new spam filter filter makes cleaning your inbox a rear occasion, migrating your mail box is easier because of the new Mail store.
Vista will be easier to deploy, this is still a work in progress, but trust me, its getting there, and I am sure by RTM we will be surprised and say we were wrong. The new end to end experiences that are being built will surely make us think so, deploying in multilingual environments or sites will be easier for companies, BitLocker, Virtual PC Express, Unix Subsystem, (Tablet PC, 64-Bit, Media Center) bringing it mainstream and opening peoples eyes to the possibilities of these awesome features. Features like Sidebar, which is about presenting bits of real time information to people when they need it.
I have not even tapped into the Developer opportunities, to build richer, more compelling, connected, easier applications with tools such as Windows Presentation and Communication Foundation. There is so much in Vista, and last but not least, the clean user interface that is presented through Windows Aero. I think Glass is sexy stuff, it still needs work especially things like the ability to differenciate Inactive and Active windows, but I am sure those are being worked on. There is so much I could post but I am tired. But I just want to say look at the opportunities, and stop looking at the temporary issues that will be fixed as development progresses towards RTM. Don't spout the corp line and expect that'll fix everything Andre cause it won't. Only real changes will save Vista, not paying lip service to corp/department heads. I owe nothing to MS therefore I'm unencumbered in my opinion. Just fix the damn thing! Frank
If everyone tells MS it stinks you will see how fast MS will start making it better.... or self destruct!
"Robert Moir" wrote in message
John Jay Smith wrote: its stinks big time..
And if it ever gets better it will be because of people like Ed enumerating their concerns, and not because of folks typing "it stinks" every time they see an opportunity.
-- -- Rob Moir, Microsoft MVP Blog Site - http://www.robertmoir.com Virtual PC 2004 FAQ - http://www.robertmoir.co.uk/win/VirtualPC2004FAQ.html I'm always surprised at "professionals" who STILL have to be asked "Have you checked (event viewer / syslog)".
John Jay Smith wrote:
If everyone tells MS it stinks you will see how fast MS will start making it better.... or self destruct!
I'll try and use little words to help you understand this:
If we all say "it stinks" but no one explains why then MS will not know what needs to be done to meet your need for "making it better..."
You are arrogant, and since you want to play it that way, HERE YOU GO BUSTER:
I have given very detailed explainations in the past.... but who in MS listens? NO ONE!
let me give it to you short and simple so your few loosely connected, malnutritioned brain cells can get the message:
"There is no analysis to give anymore because it just plainly STINKS!"
An analysis will only make them tweak the small problems. This whole OS needs re-evaluation.. but they wont do it, because they dont have time!
If they were listening to simple people... they would NOT have gone on the path they have now...
I see it like a bomb ticking and ready to explode with a spectacular VISTA of lights... if they dont come up with a miracle, MS is DOOMED.
"Robert Moir" wrote in message
John Jay Smith wrote: If everyone tells MS it stinks you will see how fast MS will start making it better.... or self destruct!
I'll try and use little words to help you understand this:
If we all say "it stinks" but no one explains why then MS will not know what needs to be done to meet your need for "making it better..."
Erm... it's not much, but I'll happily pass on a suggestion to try and get more Microsoft folk' in here... it's totally down to the staff themselves as it's not their place to actually be asked by their bosses to come in the public newsgroups.
It's worth a try - just because I'm working with the company on one side of the Atlantic doesn't mean to say they'll listen... but it's worth a try :o)
In the meantime, use the MBC client to file suggestions - more info here: http://www.vistabase.co.uk/welcome.php?bugreport
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
You are arrogant, and since you want to play it that way, HERE YOU GO BUSTER:
I have given very detailed explainations in the past.... but who in MS listens? NO ONE!
let me give it to you short and simple so your few loosely connected, malnutritioned brain cells can get the message:
"There is no analysis to give anymore because it just plainly STINKS!"
An analysis will only make them tweak the small problems. This whole OS needs re-evaluation.. but they wont do it, because they dont have time!
If they were listening to simple people... they would NOT have gone on the path they have now...
I see it like a bomb ticking and ready to explode with a spectacular VISTA of lights... if they dont come up with a miracle, MS is DOOMED.
"Robert Moir" wrote in message John Jay Smith wrote: If everyone tells MS it stinks you will see how fast MS will start making it better.... or self destruct!
I'll try and use little words to help you understand this:
If we all say "it stinks" but no one explains why then MS will not know what needs to be done to meet your need for "making it better..."
Thanks Zack.. I lost it for a moment there,
I know I should not be negative, and I should not have given robert a hard time....
I will file all my suggestions (if they can get to them that is), just so i know that at least I have tried to contribute, at least they can try to fix some easy things that are really annoying.
I can just imagine the wave of support calls I will get from older clients crying out for help when they upgrade... when they will not be able to do simple tasks that they learned easily in XP.
Like "where is the stupid folder list pane in explorer" lol..... (they said they will get that back...lets see)
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message
Erm... it's not much, but I'll happily pass on a suggestion to try and get more Microsoft folk' in here... it's totally down to the staff themselves as it's not their place to actually be asked by their bosses to come in the public newsgroups.
It's worth a try - just because I'm working with the company on one side of the Atlantic doesn't mean to say they'll listen... but it's worth a try :o)
In the meantime, use the MBC client to file suggestions - more info here: http://www.vistabase.co.uk/welcome.php?bugreport
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message You are arrogant, and since you want to play it that way, HERE YOU GO BUSTER:
I have given very detailed explainations in the past.... but who in MS listens? NO ONE!
let me give it to you short and simple so your few loosely connected, malnutritioned brain cells can get the message:
"There is no analysis to give anymore because it just plainly STINKS!"
An analysis will only make them tweak the small problems. This whole OS needs re-evaluation.. but they wont do it, because they dont have time!
If they were listening to simple people... they would NOT have gone on the path they have now...
I see it like a bomb ticking and ready to explode with a spectacular VISTA of lights... if they dont come up with a miracle, MS is DOOMED.
"Robert Moir" wrote in message John Jay Smith wrote: If everyone tells MS it stinks you will see how fast MS will start making it better.... or self destruct!
I'll try and use little words to help you understand this:
If we all say "it stinks" but no one explains why then MS will not know what needs to be done to meet your need for "making it better..."
LOL - it's their own fault... they made a new OS... :oP I think half the Windows world will stick with XP for a good while yet :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
Thanks Zack.. I lost it for a moment there,
I know I should not be negative, and I should not have given robert a hard time....
I will file all my suggestions (if they can get to them that is), just so i know that at least I have tried to contribute, at least they can try to fix some easy things that are really annoying.
I can just imagine the wave of support calls I will get from older clients crying out for help when they upgrade... when they will not be able to do simple tasks that they learned easily in XP.
Like "where is the stupid folder list pane in explorer" lol..... (they said they will get that back...lets see)
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message Erm... it's not much, but I'll happily pass on a suggestion to try and get more Microsoft folk' in here... it's totally down to the staff themselves as it's not their place to actually be asked by their bosses to come in the public newsgroups.
It's worth a try - just because I'm working with the company on one side of the Atlantic doesn't mean to say they'll listen... but it's worth a try :o)
In the meantime, use the MBC client to file suggestions - more info here: http://www.vistabase.co.uk/welcome.php?bugreport
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message You are arrogant, and since you want to play it that way, HERE YOU GO BUSTER:
I have given very detailed explainations in the past.... but who in MS listens? NO ONE!
let me give it to you short and simple so your few loosely connected, malnutritioned brain cells can get the message:
"There is no analysis to give anymore because it just plainly STINKS!"
An analysis will only make them tweak the small problems. This whole OS needs re-evaluation.. but they wont do it, because they dont have time!
If they were listening to simple people... they would NOT have gone on the path they have now...
I see it like a bomb ticking and ready to explode with a spectacular VISTA of lights... if they dont come up with a miracle, MS is DOOMED.
"Robert Moir" wrote in message John Jay Smith wrote: If everyone tells MS it stinks you will see how fast MS will start making it better.... or self destruct!
I'll try and use little words to help you understand this:
If we all say "it stinks" but no one explains why then MS will not know what needs to be done to meet your need for "making it better..."
MS is in trouble....
I am afraid they will use "other" tactics to force people to upgrade if they want some benefits....
I REALLY hate to say this, but linux is starting to look better and better....
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message
LOL - it's their own fault... they made a new OS... :oP I think half the Windows world will stick with XP for a good while yet :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Thanks Zack.. I lost it for a moment there,
I know I should not be negative, and I should not have given robert a hard time....
I will file all my suggestions (if they can get to them that is), just so i know that at least I have tried to contribute, at least they can try to fix some easy things that are really annoying.
I can just imagine the wave of support calls I will get from older clients crying out for help when they upgrade... when they will not be able to do simple tasks that they learned easily in XP.
Like "where is the stupid folder list pane in explorer" lol..... (they said they will get that back...lets see)
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message Erm... it's not much, but I'll happily pass on a suggestion to try and get more Microsoft folk' in here... it's totally down to the staff themselves as it's not their place to actually be asked by their bosses to come in the public newsgroups.
It's worth a try - just because I'm working with the company on one side of the Atlantic doesn't mean to say they'll listen... but it's worth a try :o)
In the meantime, use the MBC client to file suggestions - more info here: http://www.vistabase.co.uk/welcome.php?bugreport
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message You are arrogant, and since you want to play it that way, HERE YOU GO BUSTER:
I have given very detailed explainations in the past.... but who in MS listens? NO ONE!
let me give it to you short and simple so your few loosely connected, malnutritioned brain cells can get the message:
"There is no analysis to give anymore because it just plainly STINKS!"
An analysis will only make them tweak the small problems. This whole OS needs re-evaluation.. but they wont do it, because they dont have time!
If they were listening to simple people... they would NOT have gone on the path they have now...
I see it like a bomb ticking and ready to explode with a spectacular VISTA of lights... if they dont come up with a miracle, MS is DOOMED.
"Robert Moir" wrote in message John Jay Smith wrote: If everyone tells MS it stinks you will see how fast MS will start making it better.... or self destruct!
I'll try and use little words to help you understand this:
If we all say "it stinks" but no one explains why then MS will not know what needs to be done to meet your need for "making it better..."
Linux - try obtaining drivers for your Printer, USB Devices, Sound Card, Graphics and then you will really know of Linux looks better. Continue sending in those reports, they are required to read them. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
MS is in trouble....
I am afraid they will use "other" tactics to force people to upgrade if they want some benefits....
I REALLY hate to say this, but linux is starting to look better and better....
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message LOL - it's their own fault... they made a new OS... :oP I think half the Windows world will stick with XP for a good while yet :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Thanks Zack.. I lost it for a moment there,
I know I should not be negative, and I should not have given robert a hard time....
I will file all my suggestions (if they can get to them that is), just so i know that at least I have tried to contribute, at least they can try to fix some easy things that are really annoying.
I can just imagine the wave of support calls I will get from older clients crying out for help when they upgrade... when they will not be able to do simple tasks that they learned easily in XP.
Like "where is the stupid folder list pane in explorer" lol..... (they said they will get that back...lets see)
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message Erm... it's not much, but I'll happily pass on a suggestion to try and get more Microsoft folk' in here... it's totally down to the staff themselves as it's not their place to actually be asked by their bosses to come in the public newsgroups.
It's worth a try - just because I'm working with the company on one side of the Atlantic doesn't mean to say they'll listen... but it's worth a try :o)
In the meantime, use the MBC client to file suggestions - more info here: http://www.vistabase.co.uk/welcome.php?bugreport
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message You are arrogant, and since you want to play it that way, HERE YOU GO BUSTER:
I have given very detailed explainations in the past.... but who in MS listens? NO ONE!
let me give it to you short and simple so your few loosely connected, malnutritioned brain cells can get the message:
"There is no analysis to give anymore because it just plainly STINKS!"
An analysis will only make them tweak the small problems. This whole OS needs re-evaluation.. but they wont do it, because they dont have time!
If they were listening to simple people... they would NOT have gone on the path they have now...
I see it like a bomb ticking and ready to explode with a spectacular VISTA of lights... if they dont come up with a miracle, MS is DOOMED.
"Robert Moir" wrote in message John Jay Smith wrote: If everyone tells MS it stinks you will see how fast MS will start making it better.... or self destruct!
I'll try and use little words to help you understand this:
If we all say "it stinks" but no one explains why then MS will not know what needs to be done to meet your need for "making it better..."
If they are required I will write them a book on the next ctp
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message
Linux - try obtaining drivers for your Printer, USB Devices, Sound Card, Graphics and then you will really know of Linux looks better. Continue sending in those reports, they are required to read them. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"John